Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm ready to try some red spruce soundboards. Does any of the forum's sponsors supply it? I checked your sites, but I didn't see that any of you mentioned it, I may have missed it. Any other good sources?

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Talk to Steve @ colonial tonewoods.

Steve has some and Old Standard Tonewoods are very frendly guys to buy from. I have bought from them in the past and would not hesitate reccomending them. There was someone else at ASIA selling adirondack but I can't remember who it was.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Carl Barney was the one at ASIA with red spruce. I'll look for his number and post it when I find it. Excellent red spruce at very good prices.

I supply red spruce $150 per set with bracing stock.
john hall
I only have good stuff
blues creek guitars

OK, thanks guys!

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

   I usually drive up to pick my wood ut at Carl Barney's place in CT. He's a very pleasant 2.5 hour drive from here just off of scenic Route 84 in the Southbury area. He's a great guy and I'm about due to set a day aside for a road trip to his shop.

Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Hi Arnt!!

Say, I just thought I'd throw an idea yor way.
Consider Carpathian spruce for an alternative to Adirondack.
I am making a guitar now with Carpathian. What a great tap tone...it's like tapping on glass. Really stiff too.
The experts say it's as good as red spruce and a lot less expensive too. I can't wait to finish this guitar and give it a test drive. It's amazing wood.
I paid $60 for AAAA grade.
If you want to know where I purchased it send me a private message.

Good luck Arnt.

Walter

While I like carpathian a lot, I really don't think they are all that similar. It might be an ok alternative if you can't justify the money for a good Adi top, but I really think you can push the Adi a lot harder.

I am not saying your idea is a bad one... I have no idea what this guitar will be used for.... but if you are going to attack it hard with a flat pick I think Adi is better.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Well, well, well
as a newbie in this forum I shouldn't give any advice to anybody but as a wood collector (and would say spruce intendor) think "adi" per se does not mean quality. Choosen and prepared properly Euro red spruce (picea abies or excelsa in some classifications) is often as good as adi or better. High quality Carpatian as well as some Italian can be stiffer and more beatiful, and also sound better expecially with rosewoods; the secret is the way it's choosen. Buy directly at the source, you'll agree with me and save a few bucks. If you need sone addresses just ask.

Depending on what you are looking for good sounding red Spruce can be had very cheaply, it just might not look that good. I bought some Very cheap red spruce recently that is quite stiff and has a nice tap tone but as nice as what I ussually use, But visually it is no where near to my normal supplier, wide wavey grain, dark stripes etc. A lot of people wouldn't accept it simply by it's looks but for someone looking for great sounding wood at a good price that is the way to go and at less than half the cost of the Master Grade (probably really only AAA grade but my supplier calls it his mastergrade) it is well worth it. Many customers wouldn't accept it mind you.

Arvey
I mean the best (appearance, colour, grain count, age, stiffness/density ratio, calculated elasticity, weight, tone and measured sound speed) european red for less than a half you pay in the USA. In my experience this quality in the USA is hardly available and sold twice ot three times the price you can have here. Want some samples?

Grain count is over rated in my opinion and to find really nice looking Red spruce is difficult. With Red Spruce the variety is really big and prices really very. I can get near Master Grade Red Spruce for under $100US here in Canada yet some of the American suppliers sell the same thing for twice that. And really tight grained Red spruce is almost unheard of but then that doesn't make much difference as far as stiffness goes. The tightest and straigtest red spruce I have ever had was so weak I couldn't use it for anything. Mind you I have never used Carpathian spruce so I really can't compare them (someday I'll try some out to compare.) I mainly use Sitka and increasingly red spruce. Of course since that is what I recomend that is what people tend to order. I am als do starting to use this Lutz spruce, a hybred of Sitka and Engleman out of BC. I really like it as well.

I have used Carpathian for two builds and very happy with it but I am now using Adirondack for all my builds. I think the Carpathian was comparable but how can youl really tell unless you build a couple of guitars with the same materials and different top woods. The Carpathian was stiff and really bright tap tone. Built a dread body (depth) but with a 000 waiste. Brazilian back/sides and Carpthian top. Had awesome sound. But then I built a 000 with Adirondack and Imbuya back/sides and I think it was equal to the larger model - although they had a different sound. The 000 with the Adirondack had great bass for smaller guitar and nice highs as well. Well - hope you are not all as confused as I am at this point.

Conslusion - so much variation - can anyone really predict what the end product will sound like with all the possible alternatives?

It's an old story. As a spruce collector (not a seller as someone could have thought) I had the opportunity to test Englemann, Sitka from Alaska and from Sitka Island, 4 different Lutzii, red spruce from any European alpine area, white spruce, red and yellow cedar from Canada and adi of course. It's obvious that among the same bounch of trees (as well as in different parts of the same tree) you can find great aestetic and sound differences. Among the same species different growing conditions result in differences sometimes more evident than the differences existing among different species - lots of differences as you see . I do not believe the stiffest wood sounds always better, grain count has nothing to do with sound (as well as with stiffness) and bearclaws are not in any way related to a better sound if compared with the same wood without figure. I think the best wood is the one you are able to get the best for you pourpose. In my experience high quality Italian red spruce (Carpatian, Swiss, German, French or Croatian picea abies being usually quite different) is far the best sounding wood for the guitars I build. Absolutely the best with rosewoods. The secret is the way you choose your wood. I said choose, flex, smell, tap, check for weight and taste if necessary, not buy looking at a picture.

Have a few to swap with anybody who would like to compare with any other wood.

Luigi

    I was one that also couldn't justify the cost of Adirondack until I used it. With Adi top and bracing I think once you use it , it will prove itself. The tone and sustain of my last few guitars will keep me using it ,
   Good sitka is fine but adi is what all the otheres are compared to.
john hall

John
glad to see you here. Think you are more experienced than me with adi and overseas tonewoods in general, I won't discuss what you say.
As for spruce, you should try the difference between the tagliatelle we make here and the tagliatelle you buy there
But I see you prefer spaghetti.
Cheers - Luigi, spruce collector and food intendor

[QUOTE=tippie53]     I was one that also couldn't justify the cost of Adirondack until I used it. With Adi top and bracing I think once you use it , it will prove itself. The tone and sustain of my last few guitars will keep me using it ,
   Good sitka is fine but adi is what all the otheres are compared to.
john hall [/QUOTE]

I agree with John.....there are reasons why it is called the "Holy Grail" of top woods.